Shawn Wells, Chief Science Officer at NNB Nutrition, breaks down GLP-1 Drag, precision fermentation, and NNB's next wave of buccal delivery ingredients on Episode #227 of the PricePlow Podcast.
Episode #227 of the PricePlow Podcast takes us back to the NNB Nutrition booth at IFT First 2026 in Chicago, where Shawn Wells sat down with Mike and Ben for the first of two conversations recorded on-site. This one skips the usual business updates (that's what part two, with Dustin Elliott and Jake Mulder, covers) and goes straight for the theoretical side of things: where Wells thinks the next several years of supplement innovation are headed, and the problems NNB's science team wants solved before anyone else notices they exist.
Shawn Wells’ Working Theories, and Where NNB Nutrition Takes Them
Wells has built a working framework around what he calls "GLP-1 Drag", three linked theories covering muscle loss, mitochondrial fatigue, and dopamine flattening in people using GLP-1 medications. From there, the conversation covers precision fermentation's takeover of the herbal extract market, a buccal pouch platform built around fast-absorbing nootropics and stimulants, and an unplanned detour into flush niacin and nicotine pouches.
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https://blog.priceplow.com/podcast/shawn-wells-glp-1-drag-227
Video: GLP-1 Drag, Precision Fermentation, and What’s Next for NNB Nutrition
Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 59:24 — 48.3MB)
Detailed Show Notes: Shawn Wells on GLP-1 Drag and the Future of NNB Nutrition
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0:00 - Introductions
Mike and Ben open from the NNB Nutrition booth at IFT First 2026 in Chicago, joined by Shawn Wells for his latest return to the show. The team explains the format for this trip to the show floor: two separate episodes, with this one focused on where the industry is headed rather than NNB's current lineup. Wells jumps right into what's changed since his last appearance, starting with a shift in how NNB describes itself as a company.
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1:15 - NNB's Unicorn Growth and the Shift to Pure, Potent, Precise
Shawn walks through NNB's growth since shifting its mantra from We Create Ingredients to Pure, Potent, Precise, which was covered in Episode #192. The company is now fully vertically integrated, just closed a $30 million investment round, and has a $70 million facility coming online by the end of next year, adding a third factory to its global footprint. Wells calls NNB a 9-figure unicorn built in just 10 years.
The bigger shift is philosophical. A 1% herbal extract is often 99% something else, and that remainder varies lot to lot even when the active compound is standardized. NNB's strategy is to isolate the one active that matters, purify it through precision fermentation, and deliver it at a fraction of the original dose.
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3:15 - Why Precision Fermentation Is Replacing Herbal Extracts
NNB's format ambitions go well beyond capsules and powders. Wells says the company is building toward ready-to-drink beverages, gums, gummies, pouches, candies, and transdermals, all built around ingredients that are organoleptically clean (no taste or smell), highly soluble, and dosed small enough to disappear into a product. Consistency matters as much as potency, since a fermented single active behaves the same batch after batch in a way a crude herbal extract never quite does.
That consistency also solves an environmental problem. Precision fermentation sidesteps the glyphosate residues, heavy metal contamination, and toxic extraction solvents that come with sourcing raw botanicals at scale, along with the toxic waste those extraction processes leave behind.
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7:45 - Turning Competitors Into Customers
NNB's growth strategy leans on an unusual idea: let former competitors become customers. Companies like TSI, NutraScience, Glanbia, and Prinova now distribute several NNB ingredients, since building an ingredient and distributing it require completely different skill sets. Wells and Ben agree that NNB has more innovation in the pipeline than it can commercialize alone, so leaning on established distribution lets the science team keep moving instead of getting bogged down in sales and logistics.
Ben points to SalidroPure®, NNB's branded salidroside ingredient, as a good example. NutraScience handles distribution while NNB focuses on generating new data and developing new compounds.
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9:15 - Adaptogens Over Stimulants
Wild Rhodiola now protected by CITES - NNB Nutrition launches SalidroPURE as sustainable alternative, delivering pure salidroside through precision fermentation. The future of adaptogenic supplementation has arrived.
As the industry looks past caffeine, Wells says adaptogens are having a moment, pointing to MitoPrime®, NNB's branded ergothioneine, alongside SalidroPure as ingredients built for resilience and mitochondrial support rather than a quick jolt. He personally takes both daily and credits salidroside especially for handling the stress of constant travel.
Wells also raises a sensitive point about ashwagandha: pushback connecting the herb to anhedonia (a blunted ability to feel pleasure) at higher doses, something he says salidroside doesn't share. He credits the effect to withanolides, ashwagandha's active compounds, noting that a dampening effect that feels like reduced stress can tip into flattening at higher doses or when people triple their normal amount, the same dose-dependent curve he sees with GLP-1 medications.
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11:45 - What Shawn Wells Calls "Mitochondrial Drag"
Wells introduces a term he's coined for something he sees constantly in GLP-1 users: mitochondrial drag. Someone in a caloric deficit who's also running their sympathetic nervous system in overdrive puts serious strain on ATP production. Over time, mitochondrial function declines because the cells aren't getting enough substrate to keep up, and the stress on them keeps climbing.
He's used every major GLP-1 medication himself and says newer multi-mechanism drugs like retatrutide carry this cost more than older ones like semaglutide, since the added glucagon mechanism pushes the nervous system harder, even though it's also the most effective for fat loss. He compares it to Ozempic's single mechanism versus retatrutide's three, minus the GI distress but with a steeper toll elsewhere.
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13:45 - GlucoVantage: A Post-GLP-1 Solution
This is where GlucoVantage®, NNB's branded dihydroberberine, comes in as what Wells calls a post-GLP-1 solution rather than a competitor to the drugs themselves. Dihydroberberine activates AMPK, supports insulin sensitivity, and helps push glucose toward muscle instead of fat, all without the GI distress that comes with berberine. Wells says its bioavailability runs roughly 20 times higher than standard berberine, essentially a different ingredient rather than a stronger version of the same one.
New 14-week preclinical data on GlucoVantage® dihydroberberine shows 165% GLP-1 increase at week 14 and 33.3% body weight reduction by week 13. Benefits intensified over time rather than plateauing. Natural metabolic support for the post-GLP-1 window.
He's careful about dosing, though. He doesn't recommend going above 200mg twice daily, and says overdoing it comes with its own mitochondrial cost, the same fatigue some people mistake for low blood sugar. NNB's research on the post-GLP-1 window keeps expanding.
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17:45 - Titrate Down: Why Quitting GLP-1s Cold Backfires
Wells calls back to Episode #048, the one where he brought his dog into a hotel room interview years ago, before pivoting to a message he wants heard clearly. Anyone coming off a GLP-1 receptor agonist needs to titrate down the same way they ramped up, not stop cold at their peak dose.
Stopping abruptly, he says, brings the same rebound risk as stopping steroids at max dose without a taper. Appetite comes roaring back, and the weight that returns lands disproportionately as fat, on a smaller muscle and bone base than before treatment started. People who skip the taper are often just told to get back on the medication, keeping them on it indefinitely with all the same side effects.
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19:15 - Dopamine Flattening and the Post-GLP-1 Comedown
Wells walks through what he calls dopamine flattening, a side effect he thinks flies under the radar compared to muscle loss. GLP-1 medications clean up plenty of compulsive behavior along the way, quieting food noise and often porn, gambling, and alcohol cravings too. The tradeoff is that people lose their joie de vivre right alongside the cravings, and many chalk up the resulting low libido and flat mood up to just having an off day rather than the medication itself.
He experienced this firsthand: a month without any interest in intimacy, and it took a conversation with his partner to realize what was actually happening. His advice is to watch for it and get ahead of it rather than write it off as unrelated.
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20:45 - Ben and Mike on Their Own GLP-1 Experiences
NNB Nutrition announced three precision-fermented ingredients launching in 2026: Icariin D2 for sexual health, 4-Hydroxy-L-Isoleucine for glucose metabolism, and 6-Paradol as a clean thermogenic. Pure molecules replacing inconsistent botanical extracts.
Ben shares his own experience coming off retatrutide after developing heart palpitations he wasn't comfortable with, even though his prescribing guidance called the side effect normal. He never went above 1.5mg weekly, well under what some peers use, and says dihydroberberine was the first thing he added back in once he stopped, helping preserve the healthier habits he'd built while on the medication.
Mike, who says he'll never personally use a GLP-1 drug, estimates 30 to 40% of people in the supplement industry are currently on one. Both hosts land on the same minimum-effective-dose philosophy Wells has been preaching all episode: more isn't automatically better, whether that's a drug dose or a supplement ingredient.
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25:45 - DL185 Dileucine and the Muscle-Sparing Stack
Wells lays out his go-to muscle-sparing stack for GLP-1-related muscle loss: creatine, HMB, and DL185®, NNB's branded dileucine dipeptide, with betaine as an option too. He's moving dileucine to twice-daily dosing (2 grams each time) after seeing better recovery and strength results than the once-daily post-workout protocol NNB already established.
There's a connection here Wells hasn't said on air yet: GLP-1 drugs slow gastric emptying, blunting the leucine spike a fast-absorbing anabolic trigger depends on, making the drugs something like an anti-dileucine by nature. The ingredient matters most for anyone getting leucine from plant or collagen protein, both naturally low in it. Wells credits Raza Bashir, who tested dileucine early and is now CEO at Iovate, MuscleTech's parent company, as living proof it works.
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31:45 - Inside the Buccal Pouch: Paraxanthine, Alpha-GPC, and Huperzine A
Wells gets into the science behind NNB's pouch platform, built on buccal absorption through the gum rather than sublingually, under the tongue. A typical formula pairs 100 to 150mg of enfinity® paraxanthine with 100mg of alpha-GPC, a small dose of Huperzine A (an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor), and piracetam, all working together to boost acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter behind deep focus and creative flow.
Sarcopenia isn't just about losing muscle. It's about losing the strength to live independently. DL185® research shows dileucine addresses what standard supplements can't.
The appeal is speed. A pouch hits the bloodstream in minutes rather than the 30 to 40 minutes a capsule takes, which means doses need to run much lower than what works orally. NNB is running new acute studies on every ingredient in the lineup to nail down doses built specifically for this format, instead of just shrinking an oral dose and guessing.
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38:15 - AmeriPouch, Troches, and the Nicotine Pouch Boom
Ben admits he used to dip tobacco and has been trying to stay away from nicotine, which makes him a fitting messenger for NNB's partnership with AmeriPouch, the manufacturer founded by Steven Salmon. The category has exploded since its last growth spurt back in 2011 and 2012, and Wells thinks the cat is already out of the bag on pouches as a format, regardless of how the nicotine conversation shakes out.
NNB is also exploring troche technology, a gel matrix common in compounding pharmacies that takes 10-plus minutes to dissolve fully in the mouth, unlike a pouch that's only partially consumed. Ben notes the biggest risk isn't the ingredients themselves, but brands making irresponsible nicotine-adjacent claims they can't back up.
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41:45 - Flush Niacin as a Possible Nicotine Off-Ramp
The conversation takes an unplanned turn into flush niacin (a fast-absorbing, high-dose form of vitamin B3) as a possible tool for nicotine users trying to quit. Mike floats the idea that niacin deficiency plays a role in nicotine addiction, and that dosing flush niacin into a pouch might help people transition off nicotine. He points to the original 12-step program's little-known "13th step" as precedent, which reportedly involved flush niacin before the idea was dropped.
Wells backs this up with research showing 500mg doses of niacin taken 3 times daily alongside NAD+ can produce an 8-fold increase in muscle uptake, ahead of what he sees from NMN, NR, or NAD IVs. Taking it before bed, he adds, mostly avoids the flush altogether.
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44:15 - What's Next: GAA, 4-Hydroxyisoleucine, and Pure 6-Paradol
Shawn Wells and Dustin Elliott reveal NNB Nutrition's Pure, Potent, Precise revolution at SupplySide Global 2025, discussing precision fermentation, Pürest Creatine, OnSwitch beverage innovation, and the future of pharmaceutical-grade supplement ingredients on Episode #192 of the PricePlow Podcast
Asked what's next, Wells rattles off roughly 20 ingredients in active development. Several focus on boosting creatine's efficacy directly, including GAA (guanidinoacetic acid) and a purified form of 4-hydroxyisoleucine, along with a related compound Wells calls 4-hydroxyleucine, both derived from fenugreek and produced through precision fermentation rather than crude extraction.
NNB is also purifying 6-paradol, one of the compounds behind CaloriBurn®'s thermogenic effects from grains of paradise. On its own, 6-paradol drives more of the brown fat activation than the extract's other compounds, is far less spicy, and carries a better safety margin, letting NNB explore higher doses and build out a full dose-response curve as it becomes available.
A few of these ingredients were teased in an earlier article, NNB Nutrition Announces New 2026 Ingredient Launches.
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48:45 - The Case for Mood and "Shift in State" Beverages
With Gen Z drinking less alcohol but still wanting to socialize, Wells sees an opening for beverages that shift mood without a hangover attached. He name-checks PEA (both phenylethylamine, the dopamine-boosting version, and the distinct palmitoylethanolamide), the kanna alkaloids mesembrine and mesembrinone, kavain from kava, and anandamide (sold by NNB Nutrition as FastBliss), sometimes called the body's own bliss molecule, as candidates.
NNB already produces anandamide and has cleared regulatory review on it so far, though Wells says it's still early. A microencapsulated version currently delivers roughly 15 to 30 minutes of effect, and the team is working on an FAAH inhibitor to extend that window closer to an hour. Early ampule versions from 2020 tasted rough enough that Ben remembers chugging them anyway just to get through it.
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52:45 - Blue Light Glasses, Health Transformations, and Hyrox Goals
As the conversation winds down, Wells credits his TrueDark blue light blocking glasses for saving him from the fluorescent lighting and flashing at trade shows like this one. He's also in the middle of his own health transformation, training 5 to 6 days a week at a gym in Austin, prioritizing heavy lifting alongside his existing swim background, all while running the company through a stretch of fast growth.
His next goal is Hyrox, the global fitness race, which he plans to attempt as part of a team next year rather than solo. Mike and Ben close out with some swimming and endurance banter of their own before teasing next time's episode, which turns to NNB's business side with Dustin Elliott and Jake Mulder.
Where to Follow and Learn More
Connect with Shawn Wells and NNB Nutrition
- LinkedIn: Shawn Wells
- Instagram: @shawnwells
- NNB Nutrition Website
- Instagram: @nnbnutrition
- LinkedIn: NNB Nutrition
- NNB Nutrition on PricePlow - Sign up for news alerts
Resources Mentioned
- Episode #048: Shawn Wells Upcoming Stimulant & The Energy Formula
- Episode #123: Dileucine in MuscleTech Peptide 185 with Raza Bashir & Shawn Wells
- Episode #142: Chad Kerksick on Researching Dileucine, Dihydroberberine, and GLP-1
- Episode #152: Shawn Wells and Dustin Elliott on GLP-1, MPS, and Collaborative Energy
- Episode #192: NNB Nutrition's Pure, Potent, Precise Revolution
- GlucoVantage Dihydroberberine: Ingredient Deep Dive
- 14 Weeks of GlucoVantage Extends GLP-1 and Weight Loss Results
- DL185 Dileucine: NNB Nutrition's Exclusive Muscle-Building Peptide
- CaloriBurn: NNB Takes Grains of Paradise to Hot New Heights
- GLP-1 Drag: Shawn Wells' Theory on Muscle, Mitochondria, and Dopamine - companion deep dive, publishing soon
Ingredients Discussed
- GlucoVantage® (Dihydroberberine)
- DL185® (Dileucine)
- MitoPrime® (L-Ergothioneine)
- SalidroPure® (Salidroside)
- CaloriBurn® (Grains of Paradise / 6-Paradol)
- enfinity® (Paraxanthine)
This was the first of two conversations recorded at NNB Nutrition's IFT First 2026 booth. Part two turns to the business side with Dustin Elliott and Jake Mulder, covering what's actually shipping rather than what's still theoretical. Thanks to Shawn Wells and the whole NNB Nutrition team for hosting us and sponsoring this episode, and for always bringing new ideas to unpack, even ones he's still working out in real time.
A big thanks as well to PerfectShaker for sponsoring the PricePlow Podcast. Check out their shaker cups at https://www.priceplow.com/perfect-shaker?ic=19, or hear the founder's story in our conversation with Darren Thompson from Episode #209.
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