Gary Millet: The Future of BHB Research and Ketones | Episode #138

In episode #138 of the PricePlow Podcast, we introduce you to Gary Millet, the co-founder of Axcess Global, the parent company of Ketone Labs, Real Ketones, Vault, and many others. This is a continuation of Episode #131 with Rob Rogers, Gary’s business partner.

In the previous episode, Rob explained how goBHB was back on the market, and took us through some of the business dealings over the past decade with the ingredients.

Gary Millet of Ketone Labs: PricePlow Podcast Episode #138

Gary Millet of Ketone Labs / goBHB joins the PricePlow Podcast for Episode #138 to talk about the future of BHB research and exciting new applications to come.

With Gary, who has a background in biochemistry, we get into a lot of the scientific applications, focusing on using it as an energy source for cognitive support and performance.

New Product Applications with BHB

Gary uses quite a bit of BHB (beta-hydroxybutyrate), the ketone body that’s generated when beta-oxidizing fat. You create and circulate a lot of it when in a state of ketosis, but the keto diet is no longer the focus! Instead, Gary wants to emphasize the benefits that can be had when combining it with a carbohydrate-based diet, providing the best of both worlds.

After this episode, we’re excited to try the ingredient at higher doses, and are still looking forward to a pure L-BHB product, which is getting produced more efficiently.

Watch the Episode on YouTube below or the podcast app of your choice:

Subscribe to the PricePlow Podcast on Your Favorite Service (RSS)

Video: BHB Science and Applications with Gary Millet

Subscribe to PricePlow on YouTube!

Show Notes

  • 0:00 – Introductions

    On Episode #138 of the PricePlow Podcast, Mike and Ben welcome Gary Miller from Axcess Global to discuss the evolution and potential of exogenous ketones in dietary science. Initially skeptical due to the negative connotations associated with ketones in medical conditions like ketoacidosis, his views transformed after engaging with pioneers like Dominic D’Agostino and revisiting George Cahill’s controversial fasting studies.

    Gary explains how these insights led him to appreciate the body’s metabolic flexibility—its capacity to switch between glucose and ketones for energy. He explores the novel concept of using exogenous ketones to enhance this flexibility, proposing a “dual fuel” state where the body can simultaneously utilize glucose and ketones. This approach, he suggests, could revolutionize our understanding of energy use, particularly in contexts of longevity, disease, and inflammation management.

  • 8:00 – Ketones + Carbs = Dual Rocket Fuel?

    goBHB Logo

    goBHB is back on the market

    Mike reflects on the rapid progress in understanding ketones, contrasting the past fears of ketoacidosis with current knowledge of their benefits, particularly as a brain fuel. He discusses the evolving perspective on ketogenic diets, highlighting the interest in using ketones and carbohydrates together for “dual rocket fuel.”

    Gary then explains ongoing research on various exogenous ketones and their precursors, describing a study that measures the “area under the curve” to compare the effectiveness of different ketone sources in the blood. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the energy cost of converting these precursors into usable ketones in the body, revealing significant differences in ATP consumption during this conversion, a factor critical to evaluating the efficiency and potential benefits of ketone supplementation.

  • 16:15 – BHB for Energy

    Rob Rogers of Axcess Global and Ketone Labs: goBHB is Back!

    Rob Rogers of Ketone Labs joins PricePlow for Episode 131 to explain the story behind goBHB, and how they’re BACK on the market for supplement formulators!

    Gary compares the ATP cost of converting various compounds into useful forms within the body, highlighting that organs like the liver will compensate for ATP deficits by sourcing energy from elsewhere, maintaining homeostasis. He emphasizes the “net ATP” concept, crucial for understanding the overall energy cost and efficiency of metabolic processes such as ketogenesis and glycolysis.

    Gary uses the example of exogenous ketones, specifically beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB), which he argues is a more direct and efficient way to supplement energy compared to precursors like MCTs that require additional steps for conversion, ultimately emphasizing the importance of evaluating the full metabolic cost of energy substrates.

  • 21:30 – Metabolic Costs

    Gary explains that BHB salts, which are ionically bonded and commonly used in supplements like energy drinks, readily dissociate in the stomach into free BHB acid without any ATP cost, essentially making them equivalent to free BHB acid. The discussion also covers other ketone sources like diesters and MCTs, which unlike BHB salts, do require ATP for conversion into a usable form by the liver.

    Gary emphasizes that each substrate has a metabolic cost associated with its conversion, likening it to the refining process of crude oil into gasoline, which also entails significant energy expenditure. This concept underlines the importance of considering the efficiency of energy substrates from a metabolic perspective.

  • 25:30 – BHB is High Efficiency

    BHB Applications

    Beyond caffeine-free energy drinks, there are tons of applications to consider with BHB, and formulators can now license goBHB to make their own

    Gary highlights BHB’s efficiency as an energy source, noting its particular effectiveness for the brain, central nervous system, heart, and kidneys. Gary explains that BHB is attractive because it delivers high-energy efficiency with less oxygen compared to other fuels. He shares his personal experience with BHB supplementation, emphasizing its mental benefits and notable reduction in inflammation.

    Additionally, Gary explores the impact of BHB on reducing reactive oxygen species (ROS), a byproduct of cellular respiration, contrasting it with glucose, which produces significantly more ROS. He advocates for BHB’s use as a “clean fuel,” suggesting it creates fewer harmful byproducts compared to traditional energy sources.

  • 32:30 – Dosage?

    Ben expresses his concern about the high cost of consuming ketones equivalent to his high carbohydrate intake, suggesting it might be unfeasible for regular use. Gary clarifies that the body can produce about 130 grams of BHB per day on a perfect ketogenic diet, which is sufficient to power the body efficiently, compared to the higher caloric intake from carbohydrates. He personally consumes 25-30 grams of BHB daily, which he finds beneficial and feasible.

    goBHB Productivity

    goBHB is not just a “keto” supplement — one of the best benefits is in fact productivity from improved mental clarity and stimulant-free energy!

    Gary highlights that BHB acts as a potent appetite suppressant, which helps improve dietary choices by reducing hunger and enhancing mental clarity and focus. This suppression of appetite, combined with the cognitive benefits, makes BHB a valuable supplement for enhancing overall well-being and mental performance. He and Ben agree that integrating ketones, even for those who consume carbohydrates, can significantly boost physical and cognitive functions.

  • 39:00 – The Downsides of Fasting

    Beta Oxidation Ketogenesis D-BHB

    Beta Oxidation of fatty acids leading to Ketogenesis. D-BHB is the primary ketone made that the body can use as an energy substrate. We can add more D-BHB for various reasons, since this fat burning process is slower and you may wish to have some BHB available immediately for more energy.

    Mike discusses his personal experiences with ketones and fasting, noting that while fasting increases his focus due to higher ketone production, it also leads to muscle loss, which is a concern for him. He finds a balance by incorporating carbohydrates and uses ketones as a supplementary energy source. Mike mentions that ketones, specifically BHB, are useful for him especially in the afternoons when he wants to avoid caffeine but still needs an energy boost.

    Gary then shares how he integrates ketones into his daily routine: he starts his morning with a ketone-infused coffee, uses BHB products like Vault and stick packs throughout the day, particularly enjoying flavors like black cherry. This routine allows him to consume 25 to 30 grams of BHB daily, effectively incorporating ketones into his diet for sustained energy without reliance on caffeine.

  • 41:45 – The Body’s Utilization of Ketones

    Mike and Gary discuss the nuances of different isomers of ketones and their effects on the body. Mike begins by mentioning the early days of ketone supplementation, which involved racemic blends, and transitions to discussing the specific types, D and L isomers, with Gary. Gary confirms that there is ample scientific evidence that ketones cross the blood-brain barrier, a fact that supports their effective uptake and utilization in the brain. He explains that the body requires a build-up of specific enzymes to fully utilize ketones produced during a ketogenic diet or introduced exogenously. This enzymatic adaptation allows the body to effectively use ketones even if initial tests (like urine strips) might not show strong ketosis.

    Gary also delves into the historical neglect of the L isomer in research and its potential, describing his own explorations into the unique properties and effects of L-BHB. These explorations revealed that L-BHB has distinct metabolic pathways and might have potent signaling capabilities that could impact various biological processes, suggesting a significant role for L-BHB in nutritional science going forward.

  • 56:15 – Limitless?

    Vault Caffeine-Free Energy Drink

    Vault Caffeine-Free Brain Energy Drink is powered by a whopping dose of two forms of BHB – Free-Acid D-BHB and Potassium D-BHB… a combination that feels downright phenomenal

    Gary discusses the potential of L-BHB acid to significantly enhance cognitive and emotional states, likening its effects to experiencing heightened confidence and reduced anxiety, much like the enhanced abilities portrayed in the movie Limitless. He explains that they are currently conducting a study with 30 participants to compare the effects of L-BHB and D-BHB acids.

    This is part of the process to scale up the production of L-BHB acid biosynthetically, aiming to provide formulators with the option to use this compound in various ratios for different effects. Gary outlines the company’s plan to make L-BHB available within the next six to eight months, highlighting their ongoing efforts to explore and potentially commercialize this promising ketone variant.

  • 1:01:15 – Patents

    Mike and Gary discuss the nuances of Gary’s extensive patent portfolio related to BHB and its uses, particularly focusing on the enantiomeric ratios like 80/20 D/L. Gary explains that his patents cover a range of ratios for BHB, which are crucial for protecting the innovative applications of BHB in dietary supplements. He emphasizes that these patents are primarily composition patents, which are the most robust type of patent, as they protect the specific formulations regardless of their application.

    Gary highlights the strategic importance of patents in maintaining the integrity and advancement of BHB science, aiming to exclude entities that do not contribute positively to the field while supporting those who do. This robust approach to intellectual property ensures that only serious, scientifically motivated participants can use these patented BHB formulations, fostering innovation and preventing misuse in the supplement industry.

  • 1:11:45 – The Need for Research

    Mike expresses his desire to see more sports nutrition research focusing on the performance benefits of BHB, such as its impact on post-workout cognitive decline and endurance metrics like VO2 max. Gary emphasizes the importance of precision in supplement timing and formulation for optimal performance, noting the challenge of synchronizing the peak effects of various ingredients.

    He discusses the potential of combining glucose and ketone substrates to tailor energy delivery for different phases of physical activity—fast twitch, endurance, and recovery. Gary envisions a future where sports nutrition leverages these insights to create super athletes by optimally timing and combining fuels to match the specific energy demands of each activity phase.

  • 1:22:15 – Longevity

    Gary Millet of Ketone Labs: PricePlow Podcast Episode #138

    Gary discusses the potential of BHB in both longevity and performance enhancement. He emphasizes the critical role of mitochondria in aging, noting that their efficiency and quantity diminish significantly from age 25 to 65, which impacts overall vitality. Gary’s goal is to rejuvenate and increase mitochondria to prolong health and vitality. He also stresses the importance of BHB for every human, advocating for its daily inclusion in our diets along with glucose, to optimize energy for both physical and mental tasks.

    Gary concludes by noting the challenge of optimizing BHB and glucose ratios due to varying daily energy demands, suggesting personal adjustments based on the specific needs of each day.

Where to Find Ketone Labs and Gary Millet

Thanks for jumping on the podcast, Gary — keep us in the loop with any scientific findings, even if unpublished!

Subscribe to the PricePlow Podcast on any platform, sign up for our Ketones Labs news alerts on PricePlow, and leave us a great review on iTunes and Spotify!

Subscribe to the PricePlow Podcast on Your Favorite Service (RSS)

Vault Caffeine-Free Brain Energy Drink – Deals and Price Drop Alerts

Get Price Alerts

No spam, no scams.

Disclosure: PricePlow relies on pricing from stores with which we have a business relationship. We work hard to keep pricing current, but you may find a better offer.

Posts are sponsored in part by the retailers and/or brands listed on this page.

Subscribe to PricePlow's Newsletter and Ketone Labs Alerts

Topic Blog Posts YouTube Videos Instagram Posts
Ketone Labs

About the Author: Mike Roberto

Mike Roberto

Mike Roberto is a research scientist and water sports athlete who founded PricePlow. He is an n=1 diet experimenter with extensive experience in supplementation and dietary modification, whose personal expertise stems from several experiments done on himself while sharing lab tests.

Mike's goal is to bridge the gap between nutritional research scientists and non-academics who seek to better their health in a system that has catastrophically failed the public. Mike is currently experimenting with a low Vitamin A diet.

Posted in , , , , , | Tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , .