Well, he’s finally back with a real update, and with some good news – the nootropic should be ready at some point in 2024. There are still a few things getting worked out, including the regulatory aspect, but it’s about “90% finished” and close enough for beta testing to begin!
So during this episode, Mike and Ben try the full dose, and get to hear the backstory, science, and legal side from Bruce. They offer their “reviews” after having now taken it twice.
We also then get into some other stuff, discussing “other ingredients that begin with a ‘D'”, and why this stuff can’t (or likely won’t) be made in America.
You can watch this one on YouTube below, or listen on Spotify or any RSS-enabled podcast app:
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Detailed Show Notes with Bruce Kneller
0:00 – Re-Introductions
Bruce has been on the podcast before, but it was five years ago — see Episode #009: A Day with Bruce Kneller. We have a lot of catching up to do, he’s currently running KLZ Holdings, is a patent holder on 3DPump-Breakthrough, and does a lot of work with NutraShure, who distributes the ingredient.
But we’re all here for the new nootropic he’s been hyping since our earlier episode in 2018! Bruce gets us caught up on what held things up, and the legal status of his ingredient.
2:15 – Stimulants that Begin with the Letter ‘D’, and what IS a stimulant?
Bruce talks about his definition of a stimulant, and why this is different from those past ingredients.
3:45 – Bruce describes his nootropic ingredient
Bruce describes that he doesn’t want a peripheral feel to this – he wants it to be purely a central nervous system ingredient, making it more of a nootropic.
Chris Waldrum (who’s been on the podcast a few times) has been asking for the ingredient for years, to the point where Bruce jokingly may name it “Waldrumine” and we measure our doses in “full Waldrums” – if you get the full dose that Chris likes, that’s a full Waldrum.
5:15 – Mike gives his review of Bruce’s ingredient
6:15 – The guys try their samples
Bruce sends it in liquid to make sure it’s shelf-stable, since RTDs are big. But it can be used in a powder.
Ben takes his at the 6 minute mark, Mike just before the 7.
7:45 – Bruce further explains the ingredient
9:00 – Labeling and Compliance of the new ingredient
Bruce explains that everything inside is already a foodstuff and food additive and can be Generally Regarded as Safe. Bruce has a legal opinion that it is “DSHEA-able”.
11:00 – Keeping tight control of the ingredient
NutraShure will be the only company who can distribute the ingredient, there will be dose maximums, and Bruce will be able to reject your formula.
He’s also not going to sell it to known bad actors.
14:30 – What pathways does the ingredient work on?
It works on dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, and other neurotransmitters past the blood-brain-barrier.
17:00 – Ben gives his review
Both Ben and Mike want to be doing something at this point. But there’s no increase in heart rate or blood pressure experienced.
19:00 – Comparisons to the sample we tested in 2018
Bruce worked hard to avoid any level of crash or anything, giving it a “crescendoed taper”.
22:00 – Bruce won’t let Mike (or formulators) add yohimbine to it
Bruce isn’t going to allow extremely high doses of ingredients, he wants absolute compliance, and he’s not likely to let formulators use proprietary blends with it. He’s not a fan of ingredients that increase blood pressure or may draw attention from the FDA, even yohimbine!
25:00 – Formulating with the ingredient, Bruce protecting his investment
Ben notes he saw a supplement that he’s been seeing Dynamine mixed with DMAA/DMHA, and Bruce is aware that he’s got to seriously protect against this.
30:00 – Lessons learned from DMHA
Bruce was the original person who introduced proper DMHA to the market, and goes over the lessons he learned on the ingredient. There was a lot of stuff labeled as the ingredient, but it was not.
He plugs Alston Sykes at RTP Labs as a premier testing facility that helped him discover this.
The conversation continues on the DMHA path for a while, with Ben discussing how it’s still on the market but we have no clue what it really is because no good manufacturers (who actually test) will touch it.
37:45 – Steps necessary to get this to the market
Bruce is doing this right and explains the legal process to get this on the market appropriately.
42:30 – The guys want to be DOING something
Mike mentions that he feels like he should be playing darts, and this brings up a story of Chris Waldrum and Brandon Sojka who recently played darts on it.
43:30 – When might it be available?
Bruce is waiting on a notice of allowance from the USPTO, and expects it in 2024 at this point. That’s when he would have patent protection.
48:00 – Digging deeper into the ingredients inside
This is more than one compound, but “less than 100”. Bruce is keeping it tight as to how much is in here. There are no salts, which is a big deal for compliance lately.
51:00 – More Regulatory: Getting GRAS Affirmation?
Mike digs back to the discussion had back in Washington DC with Dan Fabricant in Episode #100, giving some suggestions for compliance, including getting a self-affirmed GRAS affirmation.
53:15 – 3DPump Breakthrough and Full Transparency
Mike and Bruce also talk about the disclosure of what’s in 3DPump-Breakthrough, and how it’s fully-disclosed and transparent — down to minute details for brands who see the regulatory documentation.
Bruce also talks about some issues they’ve had, including a case of counterfeit 3DPump that they caught and turned into a win.
57:00 – New challenges making money in sports nutrition
Bruce talks about how the sports nutrition market has changed, and how profit margins have eroded a lot, forcing many to adapt. Energy drinks became a profitable market, but now they’re saturated and rife with failures too.
Ben comments that the phrase used to be “pills pay the bills”… but the pill market has definitely eroded now, and there’s more 30 gram pre workout servings and flavored powdered fat burners, which are more expensive to produce, package, and ship.
1:00:30 – Bruce’s final product
Bruce has promised many times that he’s done formulating products, but he’s going to do one last one — this ingredient in a standalone capsule. He’ll do it his way – in blister packs – and nobody else will be allowed to use it standalone. That is his market to keep.
1:03:15 – Why can’t we manufacture this in the USA?
Noting that Bruce’s chemist in China had passed away, Mike changes the subject, asking why we can’t make this (and other ingredients) in America.
Bruce gives a simple but stark answer — he’s explored the issue — but it comes down to, in whose backyard will we have the chemical factory? A lot of this stuff is not clean, and nobody wants it in their locale for 200 good jobs. Even drug companies farm stuff out to third world countries.
Some stuff is outsourced to Vietnam and China, and Germany’s at max capacity for creatine… we’re basically at critical mass. You might as well try to get this administration to let you build a new oil refinery!
1:07:30 – Closing down
The guys close it down and thank Bruce, and Bruce offers more samples to test in the coming months to try in different situations.
Where to Find Bruce
As always, thanks to Bruce for allowing us to be a part of his beta-testing. Return to the PricePlow Podcast and don’t forget to subscribe on the platform of your choice and leave us a review!